Cynthia Loyst: The Social, Burnout, and Following Your Intuition

Debbie Travis  0:00  
Hi, I'm Debbie Travis.

Tommy Smythe  0:02  
And I'm Tommy Smith.

Debbie Travis  0:03  
And this is trust me. I'm a decorator. Hello

Tommy Smythe  0:08  
everyone. Today it is my absolute pleasure to introduce a friend of mine who is also a true multi hyphenate. She is an author, a presenter on the incredible show the social. She is a mother, she is a sex educator. This is the multi hyphenate Cynthia loyalist. Oh

Cynthia Loyst  0:32  
my goodness. How are you guys?

Tommy Smythe  0:36  
So happy to have you?

Debbie Travis  0:37  
I'm just picking myself up off the floor with the word sex educators.

Cynthia Loyst  0:42  
Well, it's gonna be a fun conversation, because I've heard you guys you get racy, first and very

Tommy Smythe  0:47  
sexually educated.

Debbie Travis  0:51  
Yeah, speak for yourself. I've learned more from Tony than I think I have 30 years of marriage. But yes, it's amazing, amazing to have you. And there is a subject I want to get on later with you about because I'm in the middle of something here. Not personally, but with a lot of women at the moment, which is a kind of stress and meltdowns and burnout. But let's let's talk happy stuff like Tommy sex life first. I

Tommy Smythe  1:18  
mean, there's nothing happy about it. But Cynthia, I wanted to start off a little bit with a bit of backstory about us and how we became friends. Because it is a little known fact, which I often brag about, that I was a fake guest on the social when the social was in rehearsals at Bell Media, in the very, very, very beginning of that show. So I've known you since before the social even started. That's when I remember being a part of that and thinking to myself, and that was the first time I'd met you in person. And I remember thinking to myself, this is such an extraordinary group of women. And I thought going in, I have to say I thought going in, oh, it's gonna be like the view. It was nothing like the view, because it was such a unique set of female perspectives. And the idea that it was about, you know, current events. I mean, that had been done a lot of times and a lot of formats. But there was something that felt incredibly special about this. And we did the craziest things like we were trying out concepts and ideas like Do you remember that? There was like a Pictionary thing that we did? Where somebody drew, and somebody drew a penis might have been me. So much fun. And I thought, wow, this is going to this is definitely gonna go and it was because of you and your cohorts?

Cynthia Loyst  2:41  
Oh, well, I'm glad you had that feeling. Because I can tell you I remember that. First of all, I remember you. We were upstairs in that weird little studio do. Yeah, that was intended to be our studio. And then at some point in time, and executive was like, no, no, no, no, no, we got to go bigger. And so thankfully, they did that. And they moved us downstairs. But I remember you and you were so kind, but I at that time was so caught in my own head. I think all of us had no idea what the show was going to be. We were sort of calling it the Canadian version of the view. We didn't know each other that well. But when we done our first audition, it was actually that format, those exact personalities, the four original hosts. And you could tell there was a kind of chemistry and electricity and a difference of opinions that had real potential. But I remember doing interviews on the lead up for that show. And going like, I don't I don't know why this is it, I felt the most out of water, because the other women were very much familiar with doing on air. And I think I'm unique. And I continue to be a bit of a weirdo in this space in that I'm not a natural extrovert. I'm actually I lean introvert, which I think is kind of unusual for someone who is in the public eye. I'm an ambivert. Right? So I get sort of I enjoy people I enjoy being out in the world. But I also need to recover from that experience where some people you know, like they, Debbie, I think you're like this I think you sort of you feed and you like I can feel it from you. You are a natural born entertainer,

Debbie Travis  4:10  
I would say yeah, and a lot of people think of you if you like that you're an extrovert. And they they think that you have this kind of power energy, but they don't see when you collapse. I think they think because all people see is what you're doing. They don't see you in your pajamas, you know, in the fetal position in the eating away, leave me alone. She's on. I think they don't see all that. And sometimes that's a bit of an issue today because we're just looking at the rosy stuff and you think all these women can cope. But actually I remember being I was on Marilyn show and being called upstairs and the project the big top honcho producer there, actually asked my opinion and she told me that this show was coming and she She actually have a picture of each one of you on her desk. And, and I said exactly what Tommy's just said, but Oh, not the view, though, is it? And she said, Well, no, not really. It's not really the direction we want to go in. And I said, What about Loose Women, which is the British version of an everybody from Sharon Osbourne to? You know, I mean, there's so many well known Brits are on that show. And they rotate them a lot and everything. And I remember pointing at a picture of you and going, Oh, she looks nice. So you got the job? And sure, God bless. I think he steered more loose women didn't it? Rather than Yes, political. So I think

Cynthia Loyst  5:37  
so. Although you wouldn't know at the time, like based on our photos, Jann Arden, who I know has been on your podcast, and she's a dear friend as well. And she often said, when she first saw the lineup of photos, she was like, Oh, my God, what is this the tight dress and the big hair show? It's true. And I looked back at those early photos, I was like, Oh, who, you know, we were all just trying to figure out who we want it to be, I think and what the show would become, and I do, we found over the years, it really has become this feminist show where we've, you know, we've, we've laughed, and we've cried, and there's been stories shared of abortion, we've pushed, you know, caused major controversy in the Canadian media scene when we, when we talked about hockey and some of the problems with hockey before they became known. So in this, you know, 11 seasons, I feel like we've really, really established ourselves as this show that is, for women, and men, actually, I just the other day, I was at a spa. And this man came up to me, and I'm always surprised. It's always the men who actually go out of their way in the grocery store to be like, I like your show. This man in particular said, and I really appreciated this, he said, I learned so much about women from watching your show.

Debbie Travis  6:46  
Oh, that's nice. Wow.

Tommy Smythe  6:47  
big compliment. You know, it's always been something that fascinated me about the social, and about all of you, who have been hosts over the years of the social that since you went on air with that show, canceled, culture has become out of control. It is so scary for people who are in the public eye. Every time somebody who is a Canadian, like public person says something that is attacked in that sort of cancel culture way. I get text messages from other well known people that I know just saying, Jesus, this is like, you know, out this, I'm next No, because when you speak your mind, and you have to, and when you have a show that's actually calibrated and set up so that you are supposed to speak your mind, you open yourself up to this kind of thing. And I will say over the course of the 11 seasons, I have three times written letters of support for various hosts, I won't say who they are, because let's not dig up any of that anymore to multiple executives about media. Because I have just always felt that you it is hypocritical as an executive branch of a big company like that, to ask these women to go on this show, and speak their minds and then participate in attacking them when they do. We are all entitled to our opinion, we live in a democratic society, whatever your opinion is, it matters. And it should be heard. And that's all these things are, but what a scary climate that you have all existed in within that period of time within those 11 seasons. And I applaud you, I so respect that you still get up every day, and you're asked for your opinion and you give it and that is hard in this climate, I think do

Debbie Travis  8:28  
they? Do they give you guidelines of how far you can go and what you can and can't say?

Cynthia Loyst  8:34  
Well, yeah, so it's for sure. I'm surprised how few F bombs, you know, have slipped out over the season. Because we are all quite truck driver mouths on our off time. But what so what happens is, is that every morning, we get together, and we've already pre seen sort of some of the pitches, we've submitted our own pitches. And then we have a sort of meeting around a table where we talk about the topics of the day, and they range, they can range from really heavy hitting political discussions, to, you know, sort of more gossip angles to relationships, like they They run the gamut. And we sort of hash out what we might say, where we might go. And then we also submit notes. So it's pretty clear where we're going in any given conversation, but then it's live television. So things might be written down in bullet point in your notes, but then they might take a different shape when they actually come out of your mouth. So and that depends on the inflection. And it depends on the passion behind it. They can all you know, make an impact in a different way. What do you think, as we know, yeah, I

Debbie Travis  9:33  
think the thing in television is you can't please everybody all the time, or you just get brown mush, and that's often the way and I actually remember I mean, I've been on your show a lot and love it.

Cynthia Loyst  9:44  
Oh you talked about Meghan Markel,

Debbie Travis  9:45  
shut up. I wasn't gonna bring it out. So So they said, I think I was we were all online, won't we? Because it was COVID. And they said, Will you come in because it was just exploding and I know one of your colleagues is not a Monica, and is quite venomously against them. And that's fine. Half of Britain is but but and I'm not a monarchist. But I do like the pomp and ceremony. So I said to the producer, sure, I'll talk about anything because your show is really like an open book. And then I wrote in the email, the only thing I really don't want to talk about is mmm, because she was in the IT WAS JUST CAN'T it was just exploding the all the bad stuff. I think she just left and whatever. And then I thought, no, delete that I'm not gonna say that they're never gonna ask me that first question. What did I think? So of course, it's like plugging me in as Tommy Well, when I was. And I will, I will tell you, and it was this deathly quiet on the other end. And because I couldn't really, we weren't on. We weren't in the live studio, you know, you couldn't glare at me or nudge me and stuff. And I just went for it. And Tommy has heard me,

Tommy Smythe  10:53  
I'm just going to interrupt and say, This is a banned subject, even within Debbie's own family, her children will not allow her to speak about it. And nobody brings it up, like if you bring it up

Debbie Travis  11:05  
around Christmas, because you know, this is how you can very much go down a rabbit hole of you know, suddenly everybody having a lovely Christmas dinner, and then slammed doors and nobody's speaking I mean, that's likely because my children are grown up. And you know, I'm not like using them every minute of every day. It's so precious. And so I now write all the banned words on the inside of my hand, so that when we're having it and I've had a bottle of wine or something, we're having a nice, friendly discussion. And somebody says something, oh, did you see that lovely dress Meghan wore and I'm like, VM, and I have to kind of pinch myself and look at my hand and going no, no, no, no, no. But I remember that conversation. Because I think, because I was so truthful in my mind about it. And my generation. Were born up on family discussions around the table and slammed doors. There was an intake of breath. Yeah, I remember saying, But you asked me a question. You know, you asked for a discussion. That's my opinion gone. Give me your opinion. But it was I think a bit. I just remember how short you all were? Well,

Cynthia Loyst  12:12  
I think the thing is, is that that was came, if I'm memory serves that came at a time where we can, we'd all been through COVID COVID really changed so many different things. You remember, there was a conversation around, you know, black lives matter, there was, there was a whole shift, we had just come into hockey gate, what I like to call, which was when we spoke out about hockey, so we'd received a really, really harrowing time as a result of something that someone had said. So I think what you were maybe picking up on was this sort of collision of emotions, we you know, the shell shock of post COVID Is all this stuff, all of our experience for those however many seasons, we probably were just like, whoa, worried for you worried about how to react. And that's that's sort of like to go back to Tommy, what you were asking about the cancel culture thing is like, it is such a stark contrast from where we started, when we started the show. Instagram, I remember literally backstage while during rehearsals downloading Instagram onto my phone, I didn't even have it yet. And so beginning from there, I'm a new mom, I'm kind of bleary eyed, not knowing anything. And then you fast forward these 11 seasons, I've got an 11 year old, you know, our lives have changed. There's been divorces different cohosts is like all these different things. And this public. It's

Tommy Smythe  13:26  
like an arena. It's like an arena like the Colosseum in Rome. It's up or the thumbs down? Yeah,

Debbie Travis  13:32  
or tomatoes. Yeah,

Cynthia Loyst  13:35  
that's right. And some days you have the bandwidth for it. And some days you don't. And unfortunately, I do think and I'm sure you would agree that we've as a society have become so much more. And that's kind of why we started our podcast, Cynthia and Josie has unmentionables because even within a show like the social, there were things where we don't even have the time to delve in. And I don't want to be clipped and then suddenly put online and at least with a podcast, you can have a larger conversation and get into nuance. And social media, unfortunately, is this breeding ground for hot takes and judgment calls and anger. And there's no nuance

Tommy Smythe  14:10  
and unqualified opinions. You know, I welcome opinions from journalists who are bound by a set of ethics, from well researched experts, from people who understand what they're talking about who might have actually read the book that they're writing on, ya know, there's a lot of that out there that is so frustrating because as as a person who considers himself to be well educated, well read, you know, a good listener, I find that there's so much talking and so little in terms of listening.

Debbie Travis  14:38  
Yeah, it's too thin. But does it get you down since he does it? Do you get saddened by Yes, I comments because I'm sure it's much heavier when you're on television that you can't take

Cynthia Loyst  14:47  
the compliments very seriously, and you can't take the criticisms. You know, I care about what my friends and my family and respected colleagues think of something I don't I don't care, I can't care. And I do think you develop a bit of a callus I remember the first time I got a mean criticism from somebody online, it was years ago now and it was before the social and I was so wounded, I held it for like days, someone didn't like me on this new show. And then by the time now it's like, if someone criticize, I actually sometimes find it humorous. I actually will also say, I think if there's a consistent, you know, commentary that comes up time and time again, there may actually be some value in that there may be something to look at that may have some truth. For me, it's always the only things that sting is when, for example, on the show, I've wanted to say something, and I haven't, and then someone calls us out for it. Because I know that my truth, it's a regret. Yeah. And so that's always something again, to pay attention to. But I mean, yeah, the state of the world has gotten me down. I mean, I had a very public breakdown in the fall. And it's all of these things, and a bunch more that lead to that, right.

Debbie Travis  15:55  
So what was I really interested in that, I'll tell you why. Because I'm sitting here in, in Italy, and we're going to retreat on. So I've got 18 women, you know, down by the pool at the moment. And we're kind of on day five, and their real vast mixture of ages from, I would say 28, to maybe 55, maybe 160s. And the half Australians and half Canadians, which is quite interesting. And of course, it doesn't make a difference, whether you're 28, or whether you're 55, or 65. There's this thread of stress and breakdown and upset and how to handle it. And I've heard more stories this week. And we've got quite a lot of women your age here who are trying to handle children. And I'm interested because, you know, I remember how hard it was because I was at the kind of real nutty part of my career when my kids were like 1112 13 years old, and going into that nightmare age, and I'm listening to their stories now of how well you know, a teenage boy, you know, 1314 is not the most beautiful sight you've ever seen. But this basically a lot of things kind of came at you at the same time. And then you call it you call it burnout or breakdown, what would it

Cynthia Loyst  17:15  
I mean, I'm feeling in a Venn diagram that would intersect, you know, burnout breakdown, depression, like they were all kind of coalescing at the same time. And, you know, I consider myself kind of an upbeat person, happy, joyful, I've never had depression in my life. And so this kind of hit me like a ton of bricks. And what happened was, in the days leading up to me, taking time off, what it looks like, was me showing up to work repeatedly, and not being able to get through the morning meeting without breaking down into tears. You know, there were there were lots of things happening in the news that were worthy of talking about at that time. And, you know, on our show, we're expected to come and talk about the things that people are talking about. And yet there was a lot of silence around certain things and or recognition that if we start talking about certain things, we are going to potentially open up a can of worms that we can't come back from. So there was this weightiness of the state of the world, the state of our fields, you can remember in the fall, there was a lot of juxtaposition of images of of dying babies alongside for me, it was like a cat video, and this kind of crass pneus and helplessness that I think everyone was feeling at that time. But that was just sort of the snapping point where I just kept showing up to work and crying. And obviously, that was made me not able to do my job. But when I look back, I can see that what preceded that was a lot of rage. against one, I was mad at my partner, I was mad at my son, I was mad at the state of the world, I was mad at injustices at my work, what I felt like were some corporate decisions and things going on that I didn't have control over. I was just angry, so angry, at feeling helpless about so many different parts of my life. And that rage, I guess, sort of you know, came to a head. And I always find it kind of poetic that for you know, I was burnt up for burnout. And then the first kind of like soothing thing was tears was water was this, you know, influx of endless tears. And so, gratefully, my boss recognized that I needed help. And my doctor was also extremely supportive. And so I took time off. And it was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do. I think both of you can relate to the idea of I'm a hard worker, I love my job. I have multiple jobs because I have a lot of ideas, endless ideas, things I want to do. And so sort of being prescribed to just rest was unthinkable to me. Yeah, in a way that's interest and I felt guilty I felt also as somebody who's you know, written a lot like you have as well Debbie about pleasure and about joy and about how to kind of carve out a work life Alan so I was like, I felt this sort of fraudulent kind of aspects like, What the fuck? How did I get here? Yeah, this happened. Am

Tommy Smythe  20:07  
I allowed to do that? Yeah, yeah. And

Cynthia Loyst  20:09  
what it looked like then for the first few weeks was literally me waking up in the morning, I would do a bit of yoga, I would maybe have a therapy and then cry my head off and asleep. And then rinse and repeat. And I mean, I can get emotional even talking about it right now, just because I remember that place. And I was very scared, because I thought, I don't know. Am I going to be able to come back from this? Yeah. And then I will also say, and maybe you can speak to this, I felt a little bit gaslit because people kept on saying to me, oh, it's perimenopause. And oh, and well, I do think it's extremely important for me, for people to acknowledge a stage of life that involves hormonal fluctuations. This was not that it may have been, again, in the contributing factors list of which there are many, it may have been a small piece that was not helpful. But it was not the problem. And I feel like women, time and time again, are and what you're talking about with your group right now is probably we were sold this bill of goods that you can be a woman, you can work, you can have it all, you can raise your children, you can really brown life. That's right. Yeah,

Debbie Travis  21:20  
I think that journey, that arc, is what somebody said this morning. This, this woman said, I feel like I'm spinning and I'm out of control, you're gonna make me cry. Now. I'm out of control. And if you look at the arc, of being a young woman, getting a job, meeting the guy meeting the girl, whatever it is, having the family, you're controlling all that you say, Yes, I will marry you, you say yes, I'll have a baby, you said you've got a certain amount of control. And then suddenly, a new baby you can't control which the night seem you can't eat and you're getting more and more tired. And I think a lot of people don't really fully recover, you know, your cells don't really recover from that pure exhaustion, but you get to the stage where you are spinning, you're not you don't even have time to worry about your marriage, because you just too tired, you just be you know, you hate this and you hate that. And, and then it's everything starts piling on, and it comes back to control. You have to kind of list the many, many things that are making you unhappy, and then saying, okay, so how do I bring the control back into that, and I read something today that I wanted to share with you that we have, on average, every single person about 80,000 thoughts a day. Some thoughts, most of them are either in the past, or they're in the present, if they're in the past, you know, is this kind of shadow, if it's in the future is mostly fear and worry, we're all worried about our future, every single one of you. And I think, you know, you're at a certain age where it's like putting food on the table, then you get to a certain age like me, it's like the future. I don't know if you know who Marilyn Margulies is, but she's an iconic she was in Harry Potter, British comedian and actress and I heard her speaking the other day. And she said, she's 85 or something. She said, You know, it's that tunnel, but there's no light at the end. You kind of know what's coming. And that's the awful feeling that as people get older, yeah. Your 50s 60s Yes, you're gonna have that rather than a big Hurrah. And then there is no light at the end for any of us, you know, it's gonna come to an end. But how is it going to come to an end? Is it in an old people zone? Is it is it alone, which is I think everybody's biggest fear. And that's the other thing they're talking about here is the loneliness aspect. And Tommy and I've talked to him about that together. And and on a podcast, because for the young ones, that's crippling because they've lost the form of control on how to bring people into their life, and make new friends.

Cynthia Loyst  23:56  
For the friend thing is huge. I mean, so it's interesting, because when you're saying control, I would spin it slightly differently, which is that I think what people are searching for is a sense of freedom and spaciousness in their lives. And I don't think the way that you describe that trajectory, I'm not sure that we do have the amount of control that we think we do. I think that idea of like, you go through school, and you get a job, and then you probably find a partner, and then you have a kid that kind of script that most women have been sold and men to a certain degree is is something that we didn't question and I think what happens around your mid 40s, you know, 50, early 50s Is that you kind of go wait a minute, is did I did this whole thing. Did I really sign on for all this? Is this exactly what I want? Who am I? We never stopped along the way to question what it would mean to carve out a life that actually really served us that really was a reflection of who we are, because we never stopped to ask ourselves Who Am I? And so one of the first exercises that I did again once I was starting to come Select like, cuz immediately, once I went through a period of rest, I was like, How do I fix this? How do I optimize? I was Everyone kept saying to me stop trying to optimize, you just need to rest. I'm like, I gotta figure this fucking thing out. Yeah. And so I went into one of the most valuable things was doing a values check. And I'd never before done this, and people do do this in corporations and in work situations. But it was actually a very hard exercise. And for people listening, you can just Google values, and they'll find a list of like, 100 things in there everything from the environment to Is it what you value? Yeah, what you value, and you have to reduce it down to First, your top 10. And then try to get it to three, and it's hard as shit, because you care about a lot of things. But who are you at your core? And then you have to start asking yourself like, how if I've narrowed it down to these three? And maybe it's like, I've utmost value, authenticity and creativity and family, maybe those are your three? And how am I living my life that actually stacks up and really reflects that? Because you start to realize where you expend your time and energy, we start again, using an app like Pomodoro or something like that? How are you spending your time How is your day going, and this may be goes back to the control piece, but you won't find that you're not actually living in a way that reflects your values. And therein lies I think, some people's breakdowns, beginning part. For me as well, it was about what kept coming up is, and I think this is true for so many women I speak with is that they felt like their intuition had been being squashed over and over and over again. And what does that mean? That they were showing up in spaces and having a feeling like I don't actually like this person, or I don't actually like this marriage, or I don't actually like this job, but I don't feel like I can do anything about it. So squash, squash my voice, I can't really say that for my boss, I'm afraid to say that because I may get in trouble squash. And that over a period of time creates this ball of rage, rage like you wouldn't believe. And I think this is also a theme women aren't allowed to safely express their rage, their anger, their frustrations, we just have to keep on and carry on. And so I do have like a three step formula that I'm toying with. I don't know if you want me to share this at all. Yeah,

Debbie Travis  27:16  
I think people find this really helpful. We're

Tommy Smythe  27:19  
just gonna take a quick break. We'll be right back.

Yeah, this is all about the sharing of these things. And we do want to know how you came out of this, because I think all of Canada was concerned at that time, and you have done some talking about it since. So what were the three things?

Cynthia Loyst  27:46  
Well, let me say like, I feel like burnout is so unique to each and every person, there's no one script. But this dawned on me in you know, in my haze of coming out of this, that, remember when we were kids, and you would go and you'd do the fire prevention, and maybe it was a little bit different in Britain, Debbie, but I think Tommy, you might remember that the fire prevention crew would come and your little kids, they would say if you're ever on fire, if you ever find yourself on fire, you have to do these three things, you have to stop, you have to drop and roll. Okay? So I applied this to at least the initial stages of burnout stop, meaning the first thing that you have to do if you can, is rest, if you have a type of job where you can actually take literal time and do almost nothing that is obviously a luxury and a privilege, but you have to take it. If you can't, then I think you have to find places in your schedule where you can rest and I hear from people all the time saying things I can't read. I'm a mom of three or I'm a caregiver for my aging parents, or I'm doing all these different things. I guarantee you if you start tracking your day, there are times where you scroll your phone that is an activating activity for example Doom scroll about relaxing Yeah, it's not relaxing at all it is not restful. So what is rest look like taking those 15 minutes sitting on the couch actually trying to think of nothing meditation journaling for 15 minutes taking a walk around the fucking block instead of putting your hands into you know like your default habit mode. So stop stop almost everything that you can are finding places to truly stop and rest. Yeah, second thing, Drop. Drop. This is what I mean by this is you have to drop your ego this attachment to your idea of like who you think you should be in the world. I am a mother I am a caregiver. I have to keep on going and doing this and putting myself last last I have to do this type of job in this way because it's who I am no drop at all. You need to drop weight if at all. You're dropping the weight of all of the things. That's right, the weight of recruiting. Yeah, that's right. Drop it. Drop your from one habits drop your habits, or at least take a look at them because For me, that was a huge one too, I started realizing little things like sleep. Sleep is super important, I think to most people. And I think this is a time where it starts to be a bit disrupted, you add wine to that for me. And for me specifically, and I would be often up at like, the 3am hour, and what would I do a lot of times, I would pick up my phone and start scrolling. Yeah, I would know that this is the terrible, terrible thing to do. And it would make my time awake that much longer. So I've thought, Okay, I'm gonna do an experiment, I'm going to stop drinking for a month. And I'm not allowed, I'm not allowed any more to go onto my phone in the middle of the night, even if I do wake up. And so I started doing that. And lo and behold, like, my sleep suddenly changed profoundly. And that impacts your mood, and that impacts your joy. So that was for me, I had to take a hard look at my habits and start to readjust them drop, some of the habits might go to ones I've more, but we'll stop there. And I'll go to roll and roll. What I mean is like just like, you know, roll. Rolling to me is like this, you know, roll into joy roll into thinking about playfulness, roll into humor, roll a joint, like roll spontaneity, spontaneity, trying things and not being so attached, like attachments to me and clinging this. I'm really deep into Buddhist philosophy as well right now, which is that like, I feel like whenever I'm holding tightly, trying to rush through life, trying to try to do too many things, trying to pack in my schedule too much. It is a recipe for sending me into a path towards burnout. And I can now see that so I need to have rolling to me isn't about creating space, it is creating joy. It is being lighter in general. So I hope that's a little bit helpful as a sketchpad. I mean, obviously, there's so many more details of things that I've done differently as a result of this, but it's a work every day, I have to be aware, because it's easy to go slide right back into these well worn grooves.

Tommy Smythe  32:02  
I was going to ask you, do you think that it could ever happen to you again? Yeah. Oh, God told

Cynthia Loyst  32:06  
me I'm so it's interesting. I feel like I got tested because my husband is away on a film shoot for the whole summer. So I'm solo parenting and juggling my work. And that was again, a lead up factor last summer. And so this summer, it was like a he left, and my son ended up getting sick. And it turned into it was whooping cough. Oh, yes, he's been vaccinated for this. It's like an old timey thing that's come back. And it's also known as the 100 day cough. So we were literally up every night with him coughing to the point of throwing up, it was extraordinarily alarming. And I was like, Oh, shit, like sleep first thing to go. And I could feel myself getting a little bit crispy. And just but again, that was when I went into double time of like, okay, rest, stop scheduling things. Stop fucking being on your phone, when you don't need to be journal journal journal, because what journaling? Also does I do it every morning, without question for at least five minutes. Stream of consciousness is that at a certain point, you can look back and you reveal yourself to yourself, if you don't have a therapist who can reflect you back to yourself, your shit is laid bare, if you're honest, in the morning, with your stuff. And you can see how what did I eat yesterday? How who did I hang out with? How is my mood impacted? Like, all these things intersect together? And your journal will tell you the truth of it. You can't you can't hide it away from it.

Debbie Travis  33:26  
Even if you look back years, you know, because I don't I don't do it so much now, but I you know, I used to. And I've kept them all, you know, nice little leather diaries and. And when I look back onto certain years, I was constantly worrying about family members like she should be doing this. And you know, this is not working. And she she needs to leave him and she needs to. And I'm like, there wasn't a single thing about me, you know about how I was feeling you're writing down? Yeah. And I was writing down, you know, and then I actually spoke to somebody about it. And they said you need to and it was the pivotal change in my life. Lower your expectations, because you think everybody's like you, you can do this. If I did it. I painted houses. And then I got a television show. And then I did you can do it. You can and you're drumming these people constantly. And I know Oprah talks about this a lot. Your blueprint is you is what you've done. But other people aren't you and don't want to be you. And you have this thing of oh, you can work this out. And I look back into some of them or years of this of me writing down you know all these people in my life of what they're doing wrong and how what they should be doing, and I wish they would do that and they'll be happier. And I'm like, Are you crazy?

Cynthia Loyst  34:45  
I'm curious. So what do you think you were avoiding looking at in your own life? Don't think it

Debbie Travis  34:51  
was my version of stress because you know, I think I handled when I look back at what I was doing. I had to find a photo The other day from like, 2000, I think 2013. And, you know, you go on your laptop, and it was like I did the royal wedding. You know, I did Coronation Street, I was producing and hosting a massive show for CBC, and that this and then the scores of and I'm like, oh my god, I think I'm busy. Now, how did I do that. And I remember always being on, you know, and you know, I have a great husband, so he took on a lot of shit. Without him, because I would come in, and I would be peeling potatoes with like, such venom, like, I couldn't know what the makeup was, by accent me, in my filthy overalls, you know, braid that's red. Maybe I damaged my kids, I don't know, you know, but I was on it. But I had to do my motherly duties, you know, I had to walk into the house straight off the set, and start making dinner, doing the homework, doing the school projects doing that, you know, and then at it again, the next day, and to the extent where it got to the stage where I'd be leaving for work at six in the morning, and they'd be still partying with their friend, friends downstairs, you know, and I'm like, you know, your mother, you know, I'd be standing there screaming at them, you know, they'd be 17, or something with rollers in my hair and their friends looking at it terrified. But I think because in those days, we didn't talk about stress, and we let it out in other ways, you know, because stressful, you just didn't, it was a weakness. And I do think sometimes it's gone too far. Because we don't, instead of whining about it, I think we need the tools, we need to listen to people like you, that's why I really wanted to, you know, ask you these questions, because like, I'm listening to 18 of them telling me these stories. And the younger ones are the ones who are becoming a bit habits, you know, it's like a habit of, of the roller coaster of how upset they are. And they didn't, and they're going from job to job to job and unlike because my boss is me, and my boss isn't me. And that's how you become the boss, you know, but you have to tackle it, you have to speak up, you have to show you're good at stuff. And and so there aren't the tools there. There's just the jolly old, you know, so in a way we've come full circle of pickup, you know, pull up your socks and get on with it. How do you compete with everybody else who's so perfect? Well, you either cry, because crying is becoming a big thing on Instagram, or you you know, so we need to be individuals, we need to be our own warriors and do what you said, work out, you know, what is your value? What is it you really love doing? And we hear this all the time hear people say, you know, I've worked for the bank for 20 years, and I really hate it. And I sit in the car crying going to work? And what do you like? Well, I love flowers, I just have always, I'm walking around your garden. And you said, Well, what if you gave up and you opened a flower shop. Three weeks later, I'll get an email going, I left my job, I've opened a flower shop, I'm like what you know, and but you're, you're just putting the seed in because they don't think they're allowed to do that. Obviously, there's a lot of work goes into it, letting that little seed out. That is saying to people you are you are allowed. Because we think that to allow to jump from one career to the next or one job, or one thing we love, and you are allowed in this day and age. That's what makes it so wonderful.

Cynthia Loyst  38:14  
And that's that's what it is, is that so many people again, to go back to that idea of you follow the script and suddenly wake up and be like, I don't want to work in a bank who the fuck was I think that this was never going to work for me. And then that rage starts and I do think people need to look at their own shit. Like it's you. You have to look at yourself in an honest way. And again, journaling helps therapy helps coat life coaching, like you pick your thing that works for you. Insight Timer is also a free meditation app I highly recommend because meditation people are often like, Oh, I hate meditating, or I'm not good at meditating. You're not supposed to be good at it. The whole thing is that it teaches you how to see your mind that 1000 thoughts or million thoughts and moment, had a seat jumping around, and the ship that burbles up, like to the surface. It's almost like you're about to go into a dream state. You know, when there's like some stuff that comes up like, Oh, I forgot about that. Whatever email I have to, it's like, it's like it's like a sieve. Right.

Debbie Travis  39:07  
But you want I think the best thing you said is, which brings all that forward is that intuition? Because if you lose your intuition, because I remember sitting in a massive, massive meeting on this massive show, the last last big, big show I did. And I had this feeling of deja vu. I've heard every conversation here. It's nothing wrong with the people in the meeting. It's me, I'm done. I am not excited. I'm not and I, you know, I'd been in television since I was 24. You know, at the BBC and this thrill of being on a set, but the minute that's gone, you're you start chipping away because you're just angry all the time. You're pissed off. Nothing is right. And I remember walking out of there. And I just thought I'm done. I'm really done. And I walked into those big offices. And I met with Kristen Stewart, who became the head of Twitter and now Now in LA and stuff, and I said to her, I can't do any more. And she said, Okay, and then of course, I'm gonna burst into tears. But I could not have finished the contract. I did what I had to do. But I knew I listen to my intuition, because I knew I had to.

Unknown Speaker  40:14  
Were you terrified? Well, you know, I

Debbie Travis  40:17  
had the idea of what I wanted to do here. And then the other thing is, you know, they say all over Instagram, don't listen to people, knocking you and I would say to friends, I think I want to open it a retreat center, you know, in the middle of Tuscany, and they got you can't do that you can't even make a bed W can't do you know, and I didn't listen to them. And of course, they were the first ones who wanted to come, but, but I went, I

Tommy Smythe  40:38  
thought you would be the housekeeping stuff.

Debbie Travis  40:42  
Exactly. But I went into it like a bull in a china shop, which is often the way I do things, and very determined, but then you get to the stage where it's one step forward, two steps back, and then the oh my god, the what ifs? What if I'd done this? What if I, you know, yeah, and then the offers come in and use and now you're so deep in the new project, you have to turn them down. And you think, Oh, God, you know, I can't and you know, and there's lots of self doubt. But the excitement of the next project, the next purpose, if you will, and I think purpose is a big, a big word for people is so exciting, so exciting. And I've told Tommy about having Irish friend who went from being a major surgeon of women's bits, to being a singer. And, and love though, and had to work out how to do it, how to give up that salary, where she would have to live and she moved to Princeton, New Jersey. And she did it, she did it. And she's my inspiration, you know, never earned the money that she earned in medicine, never regretted her years in medicine. But now, this heart that she had all her life to sing. She's singing, you know, this, to me brings

Tommy Smythe  41:55  
about a good question for you, Cynthia, which is, if the social, you know, wound down or changed, or you stepped out as a host, and someone else stepped into your chair, as has happened over the course of the 11 seasons there. What would be your, you know, next big dream, because I know this has been a dream for you, but like, what would be the next thing for you? Yeah,

Cynthia Loyst  42:18  
so Okay, so I'm gonna answer that question. But before I do, I just wanted to address one thing that Debbie just said, which is that I think for people listening, I think there's something so powerful about the idea of starting to plant those seeds. Now while you're still at the job. If you're feeling like called to do something else, plant those seeds start and what I hear time and time again, and Debbie, I'm sure you can you hear the same thing is that women who are complaining, complaining, complaining and not doing anything, and it's that spinning your wheels, and still focusing all of your energy on the drama at your work, or how much you hate your boss or whatever, that you're wasting all of your juice on that. So stop doing that right away, start planting your own seeds, and or, again, look at yourself, is there a different lens you can bring? Is there could you suddenly show up to work? Even if you're tired of that job, and start seeing it through a different kind of like beginner's mind? Like, are there ways that maybe you've been contributing to the bad energy in the space? So these are all questions worth asking. But Tommy, okay, so to answer the, what would I have known? This is the hard thing, and I think you guys are the same people as me. There's no shortage of ideas. I have an idea for a fictional television show that would fucking kill. And I've been working on a treatment for that for a while. I have another book in me for sure. Maybe to working on that slowly. I also Debbie, I would love to host you know, wellness, kind of, you know, inspirational groups of women.

Unknown Speaker  43:39  
Give me the date. What do we do? Oh, my God, I

Cynthia Loyst  43:40  
will come any time I will be on a plane to come see you. I have no fear about what will happen next. The social will die at the end at some point shouldn't say die will end at some point. This is TV, nothing lasts forever. We've had an incredible run. And so I will not Albus sad, in the sense of it's a chapter ending you whether I ended or it it ends. But at the same time, I really do see these endings as incredible beginnings. And I can't wait for the next adventure. Yeah.

Debbie Travis  44:13  
And I think it's the dream. And a dream is a seed. It's a seed of an idea. And stick that you know, on a board in front of your desk or in the loo at home. And it's that, you know, I had a picture from a magazine, I think it was in Morocco, but it had this room with arches in and I wanted a living room with massive ancient arches. And I have it, you know, and I looked at that picture and I wanted that there was another picture of an old table with a red and white tablecloth under an olive tree. I got it, but I didn't know and I was in no position financially and no position with my family to make that dream happen. When you bone tired, you know and it's not the job. You know, I think you're like me and Tommy you know the minute you get it, those cameras come on, you're plugged in, that's the easy bit. It's the getting there the flights, they you know, or, you know, today I'm just, I'm working with my publisher on the book tour. And, you know, and I know I'm gonna love talking to people across the country, and no, I love doing that. But I just see the flights you're on, off on off, and I can feel my whole body cringing of like, walking through airports, you know, being so bone tired. So but you've got to have those dreams to get you through. And so if you are at an age where you don't have the money, you've got a mortgage, you've got kids, but you can keep that dream and the dream may may change, it may adapt. It's such a private thing a dream, you know, it's yours, it's nobody else's, it can be as crazy or as mad or as weird, or as wonderful as you want. Who cares? Who knows, you know, and if you feel well, okay, I'm going to adapt it to this because now I'm 10 years older, and I'm a little bit more, you know, and that's the Wonder. And so when you are sitting in an airport, and they're going fine, our delay, you know, you sit there, go into your dream, and you're like, Oh, I'm gonna Moses on the table every day. And I'm gonna do this. And that got way out because this was before social media. So now you would pick up your phone and go look at other people's dreams. But I would sit there and go into a kind of meditative state, you know, and so when people say they don't like to meditate, or they can't use it to go into your dreams, your wishes? Your what is? Yeah,

Tommy Smythe  46:33  
I feel like, you know, Cynthia, it's, the three of us have something in common, which is kind of a blessing and a curse. And that is that we are optimists. And the world is hard for optimists to live in, in the sense that we're always railing against things that are, you know, counter, balancing our optimism, and our need to find joy and our natural inclination to look at life with a positive attitude. And then also, it is a really positive thing in the sense that if you get good at the practice of accessing your optimism, you can probably get through nearly anything. And I remember, there are many quotes that are similar to this by many great people, men and women alike in the world who talk about courage. And I think, you know, the most important thing to understand about courage is that courage is not the absence of fear, it is acknowledging that you are afraid, and going through that fear anyway, and finding the tools that you need, which you've illustrated so beautifully and brilliantly today, Cynthia, I think that, you know, when you talked about social media being an aspect of the pile of things that led you to your breakdown, and your need for a pause, you know, the women on the social because they're asked to comment on social media and to be so involved and immersed in social media. If social media is the coal mine, you are the Canaries. And at that time, there was a gas leak, and you fell, you know, and I think that you're probably not used to hearing thanks for doing that. But I want to thank you, because I truly think that what you do all of you on that show is very brave in the current climate, with canceled culture, and certainly in the current climate, with so many really difficult things to wrestle with in world social systems and in politics, and with war and famine, and all these things that we're looking at, to find that optimism and to participate in those conversations bravely and with courage. Thank you for doing that. Thank

Debbie Travis  48:35  
you, Cynthia. And I think you've helped a lot of people.

Cynthia Loyst  48:38  
Thank you,

Debbie Travis  48:39  
you know, hopefully, we'll bring you another audience because we're so especially I think, my generation, because we're brought up not to talk about stuff. So we find it very hard, what happened to you? And you do find it, you know, please, you don't want to let the side down. You're supposed to be jolly and fun and full of joy. And I think when somebody of your statute has the bravery to come out and say, you know, I lost control. I think we could talk all week on

Cynthia Loyst  49:09  
No, thanks. You

Tommy Smythe  49:11  
know, we're gonna have to have Cynthia back for six more episodes.

Cynthia Loyst  49:15  
I will hang out with you guys. Anytime, anytime. See

Debbie Travis  49:19  
you in the fall when I'm over. And we'll have a good I love that. Thank you so much.

Tommy Smythe  49:23  
Thank you for being here. And thank you for allowing me to become less worried about you. Now I know that you're well and that you're back in action, and that you have the tools to manage things moving forward and that you're sharing those with other people. I think all of this is brilliant. And you know, I adore you. Well, I

Cynthia Loyst  49:42  
adore you, you're gonna make me UEP but thank you guys, both also for the work that you do this podcast also just that you're bringing you bring joy into people's lives through, you know, it matters, the spaces we're in, it matters the people that we engaged with it met all this stuff really matters. So I admire you guys I'm so greatly and I'm honored to have been on your podcast.

Debbie Travis  50:02  
Thank you my love, so we'll see you soon.

Cynthia Loyst  50:06  
Sounds good. Take care you guys.

Debbie Travis  50:08  
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